One of the bigger features that we are going to release very soon is exploration (together with “super-large worlds” and “procedural asteroids” – more details in a future blog post).
We need your feedback and that’s why I am declassifying it prematurely :-)
We need your feedback and that’s why I am declassifying it prematurely :-)
Exploration
The exploration feature will add a practically infinite number of ships and stations to the game world, so there will always be something new to discover, explore, acquire and conquer. You can imagine it like this: you are traveling in some direction and there is an asteroid, so you decide to check it and see if there’s something in its tunnels, in its proximity or on its surface. Or you just fly through empty space and boom, a lost wreck shows near you. Exploration is an upgrade to how cargo ships work.
Because the game world will now contain millions of ships (of course, you will be able to observe and visit only a fraction of them), exploration had to be implemented in a CPU/RAM friendly way, so these ships will be inserted and removed to/from the game world as you get closer/further. In other words, only a fraction of all these millions of ships will be subject to physics simulation at any given moment.
This way, ships are procedurally spawned and don’t consume RAM. Only altered ships are stored persistently (e.g. damaging a ship, entering a cockpit, changing values in the terminal). You can fly for a long period of time and your RAM usage shouldn't change. Of course, if you spot a ship but don’t touch it, then fly away (it gets removed from the RAM), then fly back, exactly the same ship will get added at that location. You won’t notice any difference. For you, all ships will appear persistent.
Ships won’t have AI for now, maybe later. Some will have disabled reactors; some will be active with turrets waiting for you. Only cargo ships will be moving.
Call for “player created content”
Where to get all these ships and stations?
- We could develop a procedural ship/station generator – this would require a lot of additional work and the result will never be as good as what creative humans can create
- We could hire dozens of designers who could design these ships (while not working on new scenarios/missions)
- We could use what the SE community has already created – more than 50,000 creations on Steam Workshop. We would browse all ships/stations/blueprints and decide which ones get included into Space Engineers
We like the third option the most and I hope you will too :-)
The Steam Subscriber Agreement allows us to include all workshop creations into our game, but since this may be a big thing for some people, we decided to ask what our community thinks. Please use this survey and help us decide. LINK
Everyone whose creation will be used in Space Engineers will get his name into the game credits.
What workshop works are we going to put into Space Engineers?
- Small and large ships, asteroid outposts, hidden stations, mining operations, semi-automated drones, etc.
- Only performance friendly works
- Only ships that are not using mods
- No third-party intellectual property (e.g. no Star Wars ships)
The exploration feature will be highly moddable and you will be able to add your own ships, even those using mods (e.g. new blocks). This will work in multi-player as well.
---
Thanks for helping us!
-- EDIT --
One week after the poll went live we have some results:
Thanks!
Ooh, fancy!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteFor ships created in a collaborative effort, all contributers would be credited as well right?
ReplyDelete"Everyone whose creation will be used in Space Engineers will get his name into the game credits."
Deletewords can't express my joy = )
DeleteTo be fair, as you will sell the game with player content in it, you should paid creators for their work (maybe as money on their steam account).
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to read the terms and conditions agreement.
DeleteI was going to say something along these lines, but yeah and I'm completely ok with my ships being used. I honestly think it would just be neat to see my ship floating by.
DeleteMoney money money....Can't ppl just be Happy their work is in a game n not go down the route of royalties. As above terms n conditions
DeleteGiven the unlimited number of ships/stations that the game will support, any one submission should be worth about, oh, say, $0.000001USD each?
DeleteI Wish...
DeleteNOPE, they don't have to pay anything and they won't "The Steam Subscriber Agreement allows us to include all workshop creations into our game," look at it twice
DeleteFor every guy asking money for their creations, there are dozens more that are just happy to share their creativity.
DeleteI'd rather they would simply politely decline if you offered to sell your ship and move on.
I do think that the names of contributors should be clearly visible in-game, though, not just in the credits.
Imagine if microsoft bought them, like mojang, what would a ship be worth? hehe
DeleteIt is fair for SE developers to take all the workshop designs they want as per the EULA the users signed into. That is the end of that. However, it is very nice of the devs to go about it this way. Good on them. Maybe it would be nicer if some of the designers got their name in the credits - which has not been ruled out.
DeleteThe problems can be solved very easily by letting steam works be tagged as "download only" for those who don't want to include their work in this feature.
DeleteHowever you phrase it, there have being statistics about this from forms in other sources (Like organ donations, credit card sign ups, etc), and it is important to note that most people will go by the default no matter what it is, so you want the default to be "yes", and have an optional tag asking the blueprint creator if they want to restrict it from the world generator.
Just making their name visible ingame would be kind of odd and adding them to the credits would be a bit much, especially if they plan to use 1000 or more user created ships. What they could do however is add a computer of sorts to all ships that when used opens a "biography" of a ship that is written by the person who made that ship and have credits and what not for that ship there. Something that would kinda of make sense and not just thrown in willy nilly.
DeleteOr they could make a "ship compendium" that can be accessed in the main menu or pause screen so that whenever you see a specific ship it will add a picture with the creator tagged to it possibly with a short statement from the creator about the ship either from the description on the workshop or directly from the creator specifically for the compendium. Would add another thing to works towards, trying to "find em all". Could even do a step further and make it so that if you take over the ship or just board it, it will unlock a blueprint for it so you can build it yourself at another time.
This. I like this idea.
DeleteThis. I like this Idea.
DeleteGreat idea Seth Baker! It could take some time though...
DeleteI feel like all this will do is stagnate the workshop community. If the developers are claiming the right to use anything from it for free without and compensation, then the only option is to not contribute, and to remove projects currently on the workshop.
DeleteSure, there are plenty of people who don't care if others profit off of work they did for free. But there are also plenty of people who will care, and some of them are pretty damned talented.
Read the god damn steam workshop license! It is a great way of improving game by using workshop.
Deletethe ship compendium would be awesome
DeleteI second this
Deleteyes! in so many ways yes!!!
ReplyDeleteOne more yes from me!
DeleteThe idea of using the communities creations is awesome!!!
i will definetly build a large ship now (of course I will put many efforts in it) and hope it gets added to the game :)
SE just has the best developers! :*
Love this idea!
ReplyDeleteIf someone makes a lot of suitable ships/stations, which I'm actually doing anyway, would you consider rewarding them in some way ?
ReplyDeleteIt's just some of us have slow/failing/dead hardware, if keen end up with 50 new ships, and I end up with a computer that cannot run the game any more, then everyone loses.
The level design comp has turned into a farce, so few legit votes (little interest from community) means that getting 20 players on your server to vote for your entry means you'll likely win.
So yeah, while it would be good to actually have dozens of level/ship designers, you could meet people half way and reward those of us who can match keen's style/game balance as far as ship design etc goes.
How does everyone lose? It seems like only you lose. No you should not be paid for this, there are tons of people out there who actually support this game, will make content for free (because they actually support the game), and will do a much better job of it than you.
DeleteKEEN really needs to do a better job of promoting their game through social media so contests get more traffic. That said, they absolutely should not pay anyone for Steam Workshop content as this would open them up to all kinds of bullsheet claims, litigation, and just plain bad behavior.
Delete"they absolutely should not pay anyone for Steam Workshop content" - could be done as a "prize"
DeleteThat's why I said reward, it's entirely up to keen as to what/when/how they do it.
DeleteBonus is the original author could update their content when keen add some new block, instead of keen having to pay someone.
There is this thing called giving thanks, or good will, I wouldn't expect some of the gaming community to understand this. The usual "all internet content is free" mantra gets tiresome, I still have stuff from 10 years ago that was never put online because of this.
Im Late to the party but uhm, you see, there is this thing call "Terms & Conditions" or better known as the End Users License Agreement. If you would read the Steams Subscribers Terms & conditions, you would see that there is this tiny detail about steam workshop content. Go ahead, go look at it.
DeleteI think that seeing your ship/station in the game is prize enough. Something like cash is just ridicules. However, I could see giving out a non-tradable, non-marketable, zero-value trading card as a neat thing. It would be purely sentimental and have no cash value. I think it would also help to get more submissions. I don't know how difficult it is to create a trading card, but if its not too hard, I think that would be cool. And yes, I realize that this would be purely out of the goodness of Keen's house. I have read the EULA.
DeleteMaybe you could do a contest and Keen Software House Forums (Space Engineers forums) to give the people the chance to modify their ships if they have mods added. And it could be a way to filter who wants his/her ship/station in the game and who not.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid about the third option too. Not because the mods, but the sizes of ships and stations. But I'm sure you'll be ready for that, so maybe is just an illogical fear.
The blog stated they'd only use designs that weren't huge RAM killers.
Deletehttp://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=278601928&searchtext=lunar+city
ReplyDeleteAnd this was exactly what I meant about the fear of creation sizes
DeleteRead the blog again.
DeleteI don't like the way survey was created. It has already one possible answer specified because you didn't say for example that with procedurally generated conted you could have not 50.000 creations but basically unlimited amount and with way less resources used. The same can be said with artist created conted, it would be nicer than random stuff people create and submit to steam with few styles representing different races that inhabit space and not random styles not related to itself in any way like people submit. If you say that something have cons say what pros it has also to be fair.
ReplyDeleteI agree here. The survey is incredibly biased, as it lays out arguments against doing the first two by basically saying "But this will be a lot of time and effort, and we really don't want to do it, so you won't get cool game stuff for a really long time," whereas the third option is painted as bright and rosy: "There's already all these ships, and we can just throw them in, and you'll get your game really soon!"
DeleteThe best possible way to have this survey would just be to say straight out what the options are, without offering your opinions on what you, as devs, would like to do.
Look at it this way:
DeleteIf the devs create a procedural algorithm to build random ships, it will take months to get it working in a way that doesn't result in completely absurd, impractical ships. Something like 40 doors on the side and six flight chairs in the middle of the ship somewhere. This means they will have MUCH less time to fix bugs or implement new features. This is basically a non-option for a dev team this small working on a game this premature.
Second: The team could hire a group of designers, which would relieve all the constraints of option one, but that costs money. The cost of a design team could mean that the price of the game goes up, making it unattractive to new players, or they might reduce pay or hours of the devs, which brings the drawbacks of option one back.
The third option is really the only sensible way to do this. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of workshop creators would jump at the chance to get their ship rolled into vanilla SE. This way, the devs don't have to spend absurd amounts of time or money developing the ships, and the game gets even more community-focused which is never a bad thing.
The survey is biased because there is only one realistic option.
DeleteNo, there are three realistic options. I COMPLETELY understand their desire to go the route they're going, and I completely understand the hurdles in the other 2 options. The problem is that, if you're going to ask your community their honest input, you shouldn't bias your survey to get the answer you want. At the very least, they should have mentioned the problems with the 3rd option (content from the community will, by necessity, not be completely playtested and reviewed, as that would require hiring a team of playtesters to use community generated in game, test for functionality, performance, and balance against OTHER community generated ships. As it stands, they're going to check for 'Will it be resource consuming to have this in game').
Your response is EXACTLY why you don't bias a survey. You've completely regurgitated their points without taking any time to put any real thought into it. The only thought you've really put in is in defense of the one option you want, and it's a poorly thought out defense at best "The vast majority of workshop creators will jump at the chance..." Yeah, tell that to the 4 posts above this one where people are fighting about wanting to be compensated for their creations. "The game gets even more community-focused which is never a bad thing. Yeah, I'll remember that when I run into the U.S.S. Cockrocket, and its sister-ship the UNSC xxCoDis4SmegmaMunchersxxx.
But hey, the community has already spoken, and they agree with you, so apparently I'm the asshole.
yeah you are :P :P :P hahah just had to do that :D ^^^^^
DeleteMaybe add a GUI that can toggle either procedural generation itself completely, or toggle certain ships in the world creation, that way legacy computers can probably still run it like they can atm.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a brilliant idea! It will really allow us to reach further into the stars,our stations will have another purpose,other than serving as a shipyard/factory. Bravo!
ReplyDeleteUsing community created content is a great idea,it's hard to grab and use everything I want to. Finding it in my travels and bringing it back home is awesome. I think most of your players would love to have their content put into the game AND get their name in the credits,sounds like a win/win to me. That being said I'd also like to see what the dev team can come up with since you guys know just how far you can push your engine.
I can't wait to see this happen, g'luck and thank you very much for keeping us in the loop. o/
I bought this game during the initial three hour window when it was first available, not even on Early Access yet, and I'm so glad I did it, this is amazing and it can only get better, great job guys, and keep up the good work
ReplyDeleteyeah except you've got to consider that probably half of that 50,000 will be discarded because of being ram killers, then from that probably another half tossed because of design flaws (ie, thrusters placed without thruster damage concerns, etc.), and the n from that you might get a quarter of the ships left that you might want to use but even with those half of them will probably need redesigns for balance or to replace mod blocks. When all is said and done they may still be better off actually writing the code, besides if they do it right we'll never run out of new ships, etc.
ReplyDeleteWell, consider whole new ships that will be added just for that.
DeleteAnyone that makes a ship or station will believe it's worthy of being in the game. If in fact there is no limit and the only real criteria is no mods and reasonable RAM usage (I assume they will be more specific at some point) I believe at worst there will be some strange/wacky/useless ships/stations out there and at best creative players will be enticed by the opportunity to have their work memorialized in the game.
ReplyDeleteI think it's an idea worth trying, and if it blows up they can just turn it off.
I would shit my pants in joy if I was playing multiplayer and some dude rolled up in a ship I designed.
ReplyDeleteThis would be a huge incentive for me to actually finish my designs and upload them to Workshop.
I don't give a flying fuck about getting paid for it.
PPPRRROOCCCEEEDDDUURRALLL WWWOOORRRRRLLLDDDSSSSS
ReplyDeleteThis. This is what will make this game 100% more fun. Now I can finally build a giant mother ship with my friends and sail off to search the galaxy! ;D
One question... Does this mean that some sort of light speed travel or hyper drive could be implemented for really far distances? Maybe other players would have to be seated before initiating the drive to help reduce the lag/glitches? Just an idea :)
This game is going to be sooo cool when finished. Keep up the great work!
Yeah maybe I can see my mobile dry docks there.
ReplyDeleteThis makes me so happy. :-) Any updates to in-game programming?
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of what spore did. I remember how awesome I always thought it was to come along other peoples creations. I do however recommend they at least hire or assemble a small community team to approve workshop items for the default settings. So we don't end up flying into a S.S. Pink Phallic Symbol of Dimension Four.
ReplyDeletetry to make some planets in the future i know the problems this might bring and the jump it would be for the game but this game is awesome in a space way but adding ground based vanilla gameplay (DLC or not ) it will make everything way better and bring more people to the comunity. this is my opinion and what me and my friends would realy want.
ReplyDeleteRelating exploration good way to send the game. The comunity i believe will like their ships being in the game i would also recomend adding alot of the best mods to vanilla (ex: weapons railguns, cannons, lasers, more blocks like ramp blocks more thruster types so on) that way it would make more gameplay types, new ship forms and new tools but thats just me.
Congrats on the current status of the game its awesome looking foward for the future.
Have a good one.
Ohladom toho prieskumu nedalo by sa to spravit tak ze by bol len jeden server v ktorom by hrali vsetci online hraci (pripadne nejaky multiserver co by mal napriklad 10000 slotov(pripadne nekonecno) kde kazdy slot je novy server) a dalo by sa medzi nimi hladko presuvat/prelietavat. Kazdy server by mal nejaky fixny 3d priestor (sektor) kde mozu platit rozne pravidla/zakony (ako si spravca servera nastavi). Tieto sektory by boli naskladane do guly (podobne ako ked vznikol vesmir velkym treskom) zacalo by sa napriklad obsadzovat od stredu a kazdy novy server by sa pridaval vedla existujuceho od stredu gule von. Takze ak sa clovek vyberie urcitym smerom tak moze prechadzat existujucim servermi (najlepsie plynulo nahravali by sa dopredu ked by sa uz blizil k hraniciam dalsieho sektoru) (pripadne by mohli byt vsetky sektory/servery priechodne aj ked neexistuju - niesu obsadene bolo by tam bud prazdno alebo nejake defaultne asteroidy/lode tak ako popisujete hore v clanku). Samozrejmy tym by sa otvorili dalsie moznosti ako cervie diery medzi sektormi aby nemusel clovek letiet 2 realne dni cez cast vesmiru. Bolo by treba vymysliet co sa stane ak niektory server/sektor bol uz aktivny a prestal fungovat a hrac sa do neho chysta vletiet - to by sa spravilo napr tak ze pri hranici bude nejaka mlhovyna ktora ho nahodne portne na najblizsi funkcny sektor pripadne ina anomalia. :)
ReplyDeleteYep I think the survey is a little biased, but he clearly states they prefer the 3rd option. That option is the less costly in time and money, hence the one that would make it faster into the game and attract more people to it.
ReplyDeleteProcedural ships may sound tempting, but I think that after seeing many ships then the players will memorize each room and its variations (unless it's VERY well done) and get bored and all the work would go to waste. But starting with option 3 and then trying 1 or 2 if there's not enough content seems te way to go.
I wait for AI (enemy and alliance), ricochet armour (conventional weapon), tech tree, deathmatch, team deathmatch, auto detector atmosphere inside ships and stations, enemy monsters in wracks and caves, add oficial SE skybox, add maps with realistic black shadows, ship's forcefield (anti laser and plasma weapon), AI miners and builders, long distant vision ships lights and asteroids (2D simple pictures) ,map surface of the planet, new sistem destroy bolck (do not bend when shoot guns, or bombs, but realistic disintegrate.) , sparkles and smoke from random destroy blocks, astronaut's gestures accredit to num lock numbers, fuel tanks and ammo racks.
ReplyDeleteThis basically sounds like a cool idea. I have a couple concerns:
ReplyDelete1) Could we *PLEASE* have the option to either whitelist or blacklist (i.e. select "only X" or "all but X") steam profiles and groups (i.e. individual creators or organized groups of them) for inclusion in the generation? I think that all players would be able to find a personal balance for themselves between new non-asteroid content and inevitable space dicks if provided those two options.
2) Do I understand correctly that:
- I upload a legitimate large ship the "Purple People Eater by STR"
- I fly around and find said ship generated by "exploration"
- I do not interact with it (i.e. fly by only) this time and leave the area
- Ship despawns because I did not interact with it
- I remove the "Purple People Eater by STR" from the Space Engineers Steam Workshop
- I return to the previous location where the ship was...
A) Will the original "Purple People Eater by STR" ship be there or not?
B) If I upload an updated "Purple People Eater by STR" and then return to the location, will I fly by my modified "Purple People Eater by STR" ?
Thank you very much!
We will download the ship manually, so we will try to avoid unsuitable ships.
DeleteSince ships will be part of the game build, they won't be downloaded from Workshop on the fly, and so any change to the Workshop ship won't affect the in game ship.
Thanks Marek, that means the game won't have issues if the net drops out or is slow. Any idea yet as to what sort of disk space exploration would use up ?
DeleteI build a new 3 TB disc in my PC so make it as big as you want :D. The more content the better.
DeleteAlso, does option 3 mean that keen won't hire any level/mission designer? I'm ok with option 3 for ships only, but mission/level needs to be done/thinked by full time dedicated designers in close touch with developers in order to tweak the lib/sdk for better results. IMHO.
ReplyDeletePeople seem to be forgetting that the ships used will be manually selected. The game won't pull from the Steam Workshop actively; only Keen-approved designs will be entered into the game. This means no innuendo and no RAM-killing creations.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, community participation is exciting. And this exploration mode is something I've looked forward to for a long time; gives players reasons to explore beyond the initial 4/7/16 asteroids. Very nice!
Sounds awesome. Only request I have with the autoloading/unloading feature would be some way to designate certain stations, ships, etc as "always active". So if you move too far away from your base, your refineries, assemblers, asteroid-eating "galactus" machines, etc. continue to function. The minecraft mod community introduced "Chunk loaders" to get around a similar limitation in that engine.
ReplyDeleteyes, this is by far the coolest thing i've ever heard!
ReplyDelete*instantly starts removing all the mods from main project*
The credits text is going to be reaaally long.
ReplyDeleteI'm not ok with devs not asking permission before taking a player's creation.
ReplyDeleteThat's what you agreed to in the workshop EULA.
DeleteThat makes me think about Spore.
ReplyDeleteWhere when you had acces to the galaxy section of the game, you would encounters the others species made by the players AND those made by the Devs.
I like that idea, also you guys could make a weekly/monthly pool with a selection of ships, and people vote for those that they really want to see in the game.
in addition to those that you guys decide are cool enough to be ingame and also the option for players to simply flip the switch "accept everything" on.
You could also have like a search engine, where people select what content they want to see most?, utility ships?, military, pirates, civilian, stations mining rigs etc etc.
If someone wants to have a specific feel and ambiance when playing he can select the few categories he wants the most to show up, with maybe a spawn% of a specific type of ship when you make a custom map.
This can help in scenarios specific maps.
Also let players have an option to put on specific requists or limitations, like " no ships bigger then xxx blocks" or "no NSFW type" of content, i mean if someone find it funny to randomly find a Penis shaped ship, then let that guy do it, its gis choice, but of course if people doesn't want that, just let them have the option.
Now the way you will make the game calculate the ships in and out of render distance, is exactly what this game need, take example on minecraft and their Chunks and Biomes systeme, this kind of thing will make the life of people on MP server so much more better!
I'm really looking forward to this.
Procedurally generated ships and stations would be best in terms of actual exploration.
ReplyDeleteCommunity creations while they can be quite nice and interestingly designed (and some quite awkward that don't fit with the game at all) they can all be memorized, so with enough play time the "infinite" exploration becomes "Oh, I know that ship" or "Ah, that station again"...
An idea would be to have something in between... some kind of random prefab system that glues random parts together and makes something new every time.
This doesn't require much programming but it requies specially made ships and station parts by the community that must fit with their other parts.
It shouldn't require to fit with someone else's parts though.
There could also be a special color that can be used to tell the randomizer to recolor that into one specific color for the entire zone to seem like it's all part of a faction.
TL;DR: Community makes groups of parts that fit together in multiple ways and the game randomly assembles them.
Adding community-made structures is very nice idea for exploration, but as for me - procedurally generated structures are the best for TRUE exploration.
ReplyDeleteI know this can take tons of time, but I'd like to see both of this variants working at the same time. I'm sure lots of people will be satisfied with community ships for now, so that will make a lot of time to make a generator code.
I'd also like to see a lot of wrecked ships, they are much more interesting to explore than working ones because they suggest some story of getting crashed.
Anyway thanks for thinking about exploration feature, it was the one I wanted most of all since I bought SE.
I also enjoy exploring wrecks. Sort of like stumbling on a ship lost at sea. Questioning "how did she die", "What was her mission", "Where was she going"? It is even more fascinating when the answers are somewhat determinable. Always the maddening thought of lost treasures within, or perhaps a clue that points to worthwhile treasure if it is only possible to decipher...
DeleteI also enjoy exploring wrecks. Sort of like stumbling on a ship lost at sea. Questioning "how did she die", "What was her mission", "Where was she going"? It is even more fascinating when the answers are somewhat determinable. Always the maddening thought of lost treasures within, or perhaps a clue that points to worthwhile treasure if it is only possible to decipher...
DeleteWhy not do a little of all 3? Some Keen ships, some subscriber ships and a procedural generator to alter the pre-fab ships so that each one is unique.
ReplyDeleteFinally update on all the time that I waited from the beginning :D
ReplyDeleteI will be able to do more planets in one map.
Wohoo! This is one of the features I'm been hoping for. Keen does it again, Great Stuff :D
ReplyDeleteit sounds like it would work really well with a tech tree/upgrade system whereas you can only get parts by backwards engineering parts you loot off other ships
ReplyDeleteYou get increasingly better parts to fit your ship with and improve your looting/mining/whatever-your-goal-is or just finding new parts that enable different type of gameplay (maybe you need to find the large drill in order to make your mining empire or an armored thruster to better deal with armed derelicts )
Oh my, is this the exact opposite of all the Early Access Disasters lately? Nice!
ReplyDeleteI think #3 is a great idea. Of course it means I have to stop being lazy and actually post some of my ships, but you could use any one of them!
ReplyDeleteYou guys are the future of video games, you're doing everything the way it should be done. where do I submit my ship design? :D
ReplyDeletePay for user created content, Why? Space engineerrs has always delivered upgrades to thier game which is more than I can say for many early access games that I have purchased. Far from asking for money I would be proud to contribute to this Awsome Game ANOMOUSELEY
ReplyDeleteGame we spend thousands of hours making, worth several million dollars.
DeleteContent for game you lot spent thousands of hours making, worth zero dollars (to us).
Wouldn't be as bad, if this game wasn't such an incredible drain on PC hardware.
I'm not saying to give something to every single person, that would be totally impractical. But if someone made something really special, its not exactly going to bankrupt Keen to give out a 3D printing gift card, steam gift of some sort, or a small item delivered by Amazon.
My thoughts, not necessarily eveyones
ReplyDeleteYES YES YES TO ALL OF THIS. I've been hoping for exploration so much for this game.
ReplyDeleteAdded player content is cool too. And to people saying "pay us", be damn grateful you are being included in this game. They don't owe you anything.
well, if i dont want my ship or station in there i just dont submit it... if i submit it, it will be copyed :D i am fine with it and would be proud if my "solano" (small fighter) will make it into the game! actually i will design a mk2 version of it and remove some weakpoints :D
ReplyDeleteregards
I've seen multiple other commenters mention this, but I wanted to add in my 2 cents. I don't hate the idea of some user generated content making it into the game, but to me, procedural generation is really the way to go. As someone else mentioned, Spore tried to do this, and the end result was less than spectacular and led to a lot of community backlash. The community members, as creative as they are, will not be focusing on game balance/playability. They'll be focused on "what can I make that looks cool, or is the most powerful," as they probably should. The end result will be servers filled with unbalanced ships/stations, or just wildly inappropriate content.
ReplyDeleteYou folks have done an AMAZING job developing this game. As someone who has contributed to, and been let down by, a lot of early access games, this one is the one I'm proud to say I was a part of. I'd really hate to see it go sideways because procedural generation took a back seat to just using the content users have created and have floating in the ether, because it was the short route. I'm happy to wait however long it takes to do this game right, and I think many other are right there with me.
Still, they are hand-picking what goes in and what doesn't. If they are careful and smart about what they choose I believe this will all go fine. No phallus ships, no RAM destroying behemoths and generally all that bad stuff.
DeletePlus, Deep Space is the limit with this game, procedurally generated content may come further down the line and for now, we have user created content to keep us entertained. Like Marek said, it will take time and programming manpower to implement it so we can have nothing until they get it in and functional or we can have this. Personally, I'd rather have something like this, over waiting, though I wouldn't have a problem with waiting.
How about we do this. Only release updates when they are ready, not because the calendar says so. Running a reliable dedicated server takes more time then my normal job. It is countless hours of shear frustration trying to fix your team's screw ups every single week. Turnaround in your game is huge, people play it for a few weeks and stop. You are ruining your game....
ReplyDelete--your #1 dedicated server admin - sort by players, I'm always at the top. Except now because the game is currently broke, like every Thursday.
Hey - could you please send us any concrete info about issues you are experiencing? We are always hotfixing major issues during the friday.
DeletePlease send details/logs to support@keenswh.com
Thanks a lot for your help!
At the very least I hope the SE team are very strict about how they choose content from the workshop ( as it seems like that is obviously what is going to happen ). Most of what is on the workshop at the moment does not fit the theme of the game at all and would destroy immersion.
ReplyDeleteInstead of ...
ReplyDeleteHiring dozens of designers OR obtaining workshop content.
...how about...
Hire several designers AND obtain workshop content?
Do the options have to be exclusive?
I can't find the exact wording in the Subscription Agreement that would allow Keen to take user-generated content and just include it without getting permission from the creator. The closest I can find is that the Subscription states that user-generated content may be "considered" for inclusion in the game... this is different from stating that Keen can take what it wants. Am I missing something? I am more for procedurally generated content myself. May take longer to implement, but in the long run, would be better. That's my two cents.
ReplyDeleteExploration is not only about finding new things, but also about telling other players about it. if every player had the same hidden set of ships, then conversations between explorers would often go like: "I found this awesome thing" "meh, I have already seen that".
ReplyDeleteOnly with procedural generation can you claim that your exploration is unique and personal. There is a whole subreddit about special Minecraft Random number generator seeds. That means that even small things can create a discussion, if anyone has a unique part to share.
Although I'm a novice programmer, Looking at the algorithmic complexity the game demonstrates so far (for example physics in destruction) I have confidence that the programmers on the team can deliver a interesting procedural ship/station generator.
A dash of Elite Dangerus :)
ReplyDeleteWill this mode be possible on a server full of players or is it a single player thing?
ReplyDeleteFurthermore i've noticed that the farther you get away from the maps center the more inaccurate stuff gets.
That would be a serious problem when maps becomes so much larger.
A mass driver that works well in the map center becomes a mess further out.
An example of this is that a gravity generator once made 1.4 gravities rather than just 1 because i was far from the map center.
A friend of mine said that if it's possible to make each player the universe center rather than focusing on a single map coordinate.
Thus making the code more accurate. Is this possible?
"the farther you get away from the maps center the more inaccurate stuff gets" - this is why we are also adding "super-large worlds". More details in a future blog post.
DeleteExploration will work in single and multi player
I'm completely 100% ok with using user created content being used in the game.
ReplyDeleteI think the third option is the best. I would love to see my pirate ship, Strix Vientoligero, implemented in the game, I imagine most players will happen the same with their creations.
ReplyDeleteGreat job men!
Cant the choose ones got something like a steam badge or something like an in game decal in the space suit :P that would be cool too
ReplyDeleteHere is what I think you should add. Haveind bot would be awesome but have a vriaty like pirates civilians traders miners aliens crime lordes military that you can join maybe or start your own army or bot that you can hire or something like that. And add stations for some of these ai factions and have abound ones.
ReplyDeleteAlso have air food and water a lot of people would love that but have it be an option for the ones who don't like a difficulty or option and for the infinite world have a mmo not a privet server that would lag you out or take a lot of storage just have one big server and if players want to add worlds to this server they could submit ther worlds to add on to this big suerver for an mmo
And have missions and have data logs to do to keep you occupied
Here is an idea for the mmo have players be able to make bissnisses and sell mineing stuff batterys and mettle stuff like that
And for friendly bots have it be like people for hire build a coms array and contact a CPU station for crew mates like miners um guards solders pilots farmers (if you added the life ideas ) and maybe small planets like a tariiformed moon to land on or crash on
And here's a good one and jump drives for players who want to go to a new worl with there stuff and you can map your world and go back and forth just if your world is running out of room or resources you could go somewhere else with a ship and what she hold in her hold hope I was able to help you gain good ideas for this amazing game and p.s add the air food and water idea please it's a great idea and people really like that concept and add player customition for your face body and suit good bye can't wait to see what you make nexted
This idea would be perfect (the server concepts) (Not sure on food and what not but having it as a option never hurts)
DeleteWarpdrive is needed.- Basically it would through you into (hyperspace [A loading screen]) and allow you to interact with other servers.
ReplyDeleteOn the server side it could be a option in the world menu to allow warping.
Pretty much like blueprint when you activate the drive a list of online servers that are compatible with your ship (if it has mods would appear). Then the Pilot would select the server, the game would then save the ship into a temporary blueprint and move you to the next server and unload you at any random point on the server (like a respawnship).
This should be included in the game as far as procedural worlds go.
:D This concept can work with the game's current standard.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/syrikzero/
Rather than just take ships from the workshop, I think creators should have to tag their work as being a proposed exploration object. Afterwards Keen can look it over, decide if its in or not, then add some sort of badge on the workshop page to show that it's been accepted. As an added bonus, players with accepted content get a free official skin to show they contributed, in addition to having their name in the credits. Kind of more complex and more work, but seems better than just taking stuff.
ReplyDeleteInfinite maps, AI, automated ship construction with blueprints, Multiplayer.
ReplyDeleteThat's 4 out of my top 5. I just want unlimited speed like in Kerbal space program now. And the first 4 are obviously not really finished yet.
I've always thought that it would be a good idea to add a ship's device to "travel" to other asteroid field (with the ship and all that is attached to it) and discover stations, mine fields, pirates and so on (adjusting the energy cost of the travel to the total mass of the ship), but this is quite more ambitious. Now the last frontier has become wider!
ReplyDeleteIf we've made creations that we want added to this, what should tag them as? Exploration Update?
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ReplyDeleteWelp looks like its time for me to finally refine those ship designs and upload them to the workshop :I
ReplyDeleteAwesome news.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I've enjoyed playing the survival mode and mucking about with ship designs and various not always successful attempts at engineering with pistons and rotors and whatnot, I had reached the limit of what fun I could squeeze out of those. I'd always hoped a bigger game like this would be added but hadn't expected it would be so soon.
Might get back into it now to perfect my ship designs.
Using the workshop is a great idea! I hope this won't be a one time thing though! After the initial selections get into the game, it would be nice to include a semi-automated system so that people could check a box on their uploads to opt-in for being included and after an initial filtering of unsuitable items, Keen could select a new batch of creations for a following update.
ReplyDeleteI am really sorry that I spammed this page accidentally, and with the wrong web address too :3 Anyways here is the real design and I hope it is good enough.
ReplyDeletehttp://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=352236636
P.S don't be put off by my bad workshop page and photos.
Yes. This has been one of the things I've been hoping for for such a long time! I think it will really help to fill out the way you play SE. Though, I think it will be necessary later on to have some motivation for exploration other than just for exploration's sake. Not sure what that would be, really. Some sort of super rare resource maybe? Or maybe you could detect some mystery signal and and have to decode it and hunt it down. I definitely love the idea of a more complex system of AI who you can interact with, but I understand. One step at a time.
ReplyDeleteI also think it would be cool if there was something besides just an endless asteroid field filled with ships. I know planets are a bit of a long shot right now, but perhaps something like dust clouds that degrade your ship if you fly through without some sort of protection, or little worm hole things that transport you somewhere else. Just some things that will act as a sort of -destination- that you would want (or not want) to find, you know?
It sounds like what this game is going to look like in Alpha or release, is current survival pvp being relatively unchanged, merely less buggy and rage quit inducing, with a steam workshop that you can explore manually in space, with the possibility of the occasional abandoned ship shooting at you or additional meteor like force of nature threatening to make you spend 30 seconds welding your ship.
ReplyDeleteAdd sensor/navigation system, add weapon modding and you have 95% of a healthy long term pvp game. You will need an extensive AI/NPC system to make a manual steam workshop long term replayable content.
It's probably just me. I'm not playing multiplayer again until additional features + optimization occurs that changes the effort vs risk vs exploit/bug rage quit vs fun equation changes significantly, and I will not play your manual steam workshop without an engaging and extensive"shooting scary aliens on abandoned ship" npc system.
I'm probably wrong. What do you have to lose...sounds like you've already made lots of money. ^.^
THAT's the BEST implement of all times for this game!! ''procedural generation'' with exploration thk god keen you finally put it in the game! :)
ReplyDeleteHmm, I actually don't mind which direction is chosen (well, actually I like the procedural plan, but it may take time from even neater features :) ). I would like to mention tho that the poll that's up now, in majority will be answered by people that don't provide content. While I think the most important people opinion wise are those that provided the content.
ReplyDeleteCould there not just be a way for content makers to actually indicate whether they would or would not mind their creation to be included, per ship? Just an automated message and a toggle somewhere? Or actually a publish for use in game option, in the game it self? Could use that also to let people add some extra info or such to use in game.
Although I like the idea of using community builds, it would also be cool to hire people like Aaron from Last Stand Gamers, Brad Phusion, and SAGE, and all the people that have proven that they can make really good builds. It would be cool to see their builds in the game. Especially Aaron's. He's REALLY good at making cool ships.
ReplyDeletehttp://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=342287878
ReplyDeleteHello!
ReplyDeleteA question: would you make any changes to the ships you add to the game? For example, I have a large unarmed freighter blueprint in my workshop, and I think you won't like to add such a ship without any defense (since anyone would just take it and be happy :)), so you will probably want to put some guns on it.
I love the idea of this mode, and I really cannot wait to play it. If this more or less becomes a community driven project within the server, I see it becoming a faction roleplay type game of my dreams. However, I do have a few questions about it.
ReplyDeleteWhat would define a ship as too large? One of mine I am willing to submit is 730 x ~120 meters, would this fall under such a category? Could large ships like this still be implemented by users as their own craft?
Will the speed governors be increased or removed altogether? Puttering across sectors at just over 100m/s would take quite some time? Or perhaps a mass driver/wormhole device could be created to speed up the travel.
Lastly, the ships submitted for use cannot have mods, but the ships players use themselves can be modded, am I understanding this correctly?
I truly cannot wait for this to be released, and to take part in assembling and taking my crew to explore the galaxy.
Can't wait! :D
ReplyDeleteI think it would be best to implement 3rd option but still work on 1st so when it's finished it could be implemented to the game
ReplyDeletegreat job!!!! exploration sounds like an great idea and I cant wait for it.... I do hope you guys make AI as it something I want into the game... including enemy's and allies
ReplyDeleteAnother question - if I submit a ship with no fuel and no ammunition, would you add some if you include the ship? For now modifying blueprints will break the interior light settings, so I can't do that by myself at the moment.
ReplyDeleteSince you agree to the terms and conditions then ofcourse it's fair that they use it. However maybe it's an idea for people that have added their creations on the workshop and do not want it to be featured as a part of the official game maybe they should write that on there workshop page and then the developers can decide what they want to do. Just a though
ReplyDeleteThe reward is the honor of having your stuff featured in the game. Plus they are going above and beyond by even asking for the public's opinion on this, as has been stated the EULA for the Steam Workshop CLEARLY allows them to use any content that is produced there, without compensation and without asking permission -- people could not have made the content for the game without the game itself in the first place. It sure seems like the general consensus is that they should go for it. If your hardware is really so bad and you really spend so much time generating content how about you spend a little bit more of that time working and then you can buy new hardware.
ReplyDeleteGreat work SE team. I can't wait to see how this unfolds, I think it is going to be truly amazing!
Read the first sentence. o.o -.- O.O ALL OF MY YES. I was just musing the other day that the game seemed really small and static (really it's only flaws). I mean, you could make the starships of your childhood dreams, but then you couldn't do anything with them. This is the best news I could have heard of for this game. Now my engineer who woke up adrift in space far from home can now go on an adventure encountering alien ships and stations on the long journey home (A la Star Trek Voyager among other things). Just two questions now- 1) how long until this is a thing? (1.b) will things be continually added to the database to mix things up even more?) and 2) how will this work in limited worlds (eg, 50 km) vs unlimited worlds? Will all worlds become unlimited with the refactoring of how the game handles memory? Or will you run into a wall and see partially generated ships that got built partially outside the edge of the 50 km limit?
ReplyDeleteHow Is AI Going to help us build stations and ships
ReplyDeleteI think its a good idea, I still think a few more mods should have been added to vanilla first, as an example, I have a ship on workshop that is basicly vanilla except for some doors using the 1x1x1 piston... simple mod and very usefull for us building ships and stations and trying to save space for other stuff, or just trying to keep size of ship down.... I'm not talking about some of the crazier mods people use... just a few utilitarian ones.
ReplyDeleteWhen will we have the opportunity to submit our blueprints?
ReplyDeleteHere's it:
DeleteWe are preparing for the “Exploration” feature and we need your help for collecting content to add into the game. Please see here for more details:
http://forums.keenswh.com/post/submit-your-ships-for-the-exploration-feature-7202152?pid=1285359405#post1285359405
Exploration will be a lot of fun, but one idea for improvement here:
ReplyDeleteGive us an option where we can simply "choose" whether we would like to see KSH-approved workshop content, or any workshop content (maybe with a filter for name/author).
As for mods, there should be a checkbox, along the lines of "Allow workshop content that uses mods I have subscribed to".
I hope you intend to have the largest space game available, with infinite space. You are certainly on the right track. Good work and hope it remains as exciting as it is at the moment. :)
ReplyDeleteDo the created ships have to be hostile or not?
ReplyDeleteHI Marek! Thanks for over 2000 hours of fun ...
ReplyDeleteAre there any plans to have some REALLY large spacial bodies inserted into the game? I have made many many asteroids, and they are memory intensive to say the least. It would be nice to see a 3 or 4 km long type asteroid out there - Could make for some interesting 'colony' type designs. As it sits right now, all of the asteroids are of the same general shapes or combinations of three or four general shapes. There is little diversity here.
MODS. Can we please have an option to delete the mod from the mod selection screen, and can we please allow SE to utilize the mods in offline mode. I am aware that there is a way around this restriction, but it requires having duplicates. I have over 400 mods at the moment - I actually bought a hard drive with the sole purpose of housing my universe! I have to connect with satellite ISP and on good days I have issues with my steam connection. If its not clean - SE reports mod errors and they do not run.
Thanks again. I am as addicted now as I was 8 months ago with close to 2000 hours in. I am eagerly awaiting Medieval Engineers!
Buzzed Bear
well i noticed people like to make thier factions look a little "corperate" or in a manner which they could create a line of ships under a "company name", so why not make it a requirement to have your ships added to the game that you make a "Company" of sorts and when you come accross said ship it has the manufacturers details ;) if its considered a mass produced ship to the point you would keep comming accross it maybe, it would technically have some sort of details like it :), thus giving credit to the people who made it in a way ingame that isnt intrusive but will also add to the desire to build for the community and with them :)
ReplyDelete